Tuesday, March 27, 2007

Holmen,Wisconsin Fluoride Debate March 2007

On March 27th, 2007 around 5.15pm GMT many of the posts and debates on the fluoride issue disappeared from The Holmen Courier website on a number of articles. No explanation has been forthcoming.

wrote on March 27, 2007 11:12 AM (Wisconsin Time): "Hi. OK, to answer your questions, some of which I find completely irrelevant, but however: 1) No, I do not use fluoridated toothpaste - I use a Pfizer brand called Euthymol and have for about 10 years. Funny, but the number of filling I get has dropped from about 3 a year to 1 every two years, and that is replacing old ones. I have had NO caries since starting to use it. I never realised that until you asked, so thanks! 2) If you knew something that could help to improve a person's life through contacting them, would it really matter to you where they lived? If they lived far away would that cause you to ignore the help you could give? As it happens, I lived in Chicago for a number of years and vacationed in Wisconsin, so I have a soft spot for the state. I believe the Internet helps us all to realize that we are part of the larger world community anyway. 3) The clues of where I get my information are in some of my previous posts and the many links I give. I have studied fluoridation on the Internet, in books and on video, I have read articles, research papers and do a search every day via Google for new fluoride information. That is how I first heard of Holmen. I encourage everybody to do their OWN research and not just to take the word of vested interests! 4) My profession is as an environmental consultant in recycling. I run the logistics for one of the two Irish Producer WEEE Compliance schemes. As I said before, fluoride research is something I have undertaken at my own initiative as my "special interest". I also think it is one of the most disgusting and cynical practices inflicted on a human population without their consent by those who stand to gain financially by it. The long-term hazards to human health are totally unknown, but by the rates of increases in Alzheimer's Disease, cancers, osteoporosis, hyperthyroidism and other conditions in the populations of fluoridating countries it is only a matter of time until the penny drops. "

To: lucifersmirror 24/3/2007

Hi. I, and I am sure others, would appreciate if you kept this blog on topic. However, as the pro-fluoride lobby do not try to spread information and instead try to subdue it, I will answer your questions and remarks. First, you mention fluoride and the Nazis. I have read the fascinating " The Crime and Punishment of I.G. Farben" which is the work usually referred to as containing the statements about concentration camp use of fluoride. The book does not mention this at all. Pending further substantiated information you can lump that together with the fluoride lobby's repeated references to Dr Strangelove and 50 year of fluoridation prove this is safe, etc...! As to beer, you can trust most beers brewed in countries without fluoridation, i.e. most of Europe, i.e. Belgium, Holland, Germany, France, etc. You must contact a company which brews beer on licence in Ireland to ascertain whether they use local fluoridated water or not. Most do. Carlsberg is safe in that it uses Northern Ireland water, Hoegarden also , as it is brewed in Belgium. For baby formula, use bottled water with sodium content under 15mg/l. Good luck, but please keep on topic in future. Regards.

wrote on March 19, 2007 12:46 PM:"Thank you. I agree that the cynical concept of mass medication and toxic waste dumping known as fluoridation is a world -wide problem (at least in Ireland, US, Canada, NZ and Australia where it is practiced) wherever it raises its ugly head, and that it does not matter where one lives - if you have some knowledge about the situation and you see people in danger, you try to help. Not doing so is an abrogation of responsibility. It seems that people who want this is their water are looking for the State to stop their caries, are they reluctant to ensure a proper dental regime and diet for themselves? Don't they realise that if you look after your teeth you don't need additives, especially in public water, to do the job you should be doing yourself? Is it just laziness? If they spent even three days researching this subject -say starting with Christopher Bryson's well researched book "The Fluoride Deception" (Video here: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7319752042352089988&pl=true ) maybe they would start to see that the claims of the fluoride lobby revolve around something way beyond teeth. Why was the ADA AGAINST fluoridation until 1952?! They had discovered fluoride effects on the public in the 1920's. Unfortunately, there are just some people who want government to do everything for them without regard to the rights of others, especially those who try to educate themselves, regard their and their family members bodies as temples and are very aware of the pollutive effects of this hydrofluorosilicic acid. Buy a toothbrush and cut down on the sugar instead of trying to medicate everybody, that is the lazy way. SUGGESTED READING FOR THE INTERESTED & CONCERNED: Christopher Bryson – The Fluoride Deception Barry Groves – Fluoride: Drinking Ourselves to Death? WEBSITES: www.kildare.ie/healthfitness/2006/12/fluoride_in_water.html -very interesting look at all the physical effects of fluoride http://www.lewrockwell.com/miller/miller17.html - A Doctors View -in plain English www.fluoridealert.org www.voiceireland.org http://www.nofluoride.com http://pubs.acs.org/cen/news/84/i13/8413notw8.html -what the chemical companies say http://www.york.ac.uk/inst/crd/fluoridnew.htm -what the York Report REALLY said http://www.ewg.org/issues/fluoride/20060322/index.php -analysis of baby FL intake http://www.just-think-it.com/no-f.htm - just one of many scientists’ view http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=25017 - leaching of lead due to FL http://www.actionpa.org/fluoride/aluminum.html - links with Alzheimers http://www.fluoridenews.blogspot.com/ http://www.taxtyranny.ca/images/HTML/Fluoride/Fluoride31.html - Prof.Paul Connett http://www.rvi.net/~fluoride/000072.htm - Dr. Don MacAuley – Irish Dentist http://www.purewatergazette.net/fluorideinformation.htm - DoHC Hiding Report? http://bruha.com/pfpc/ - A parents view site http://www.waterwatchofutah.com/thecontroversy.htm - U.S. Community concern http://www.zerowasteamerica.org/ZWAReports11-2-98.htm LEARN – INFORM – CAUSE CHANGE EUES Ireland"

EUES Ireland wrote on March 18, 2007 12:15 PM:"Good Day! In relation to remarks about Ireland & fluoridation: 76% of public water is fluoridated and has been since 1964 after a 4 year case was taken by a citizen fighting it on the basis of individual freedom was brought all the way to the Supreme Court. As the only European country fluoridating by statute you would think that we would be number one in the European caries league, but we are 6th, behind 5 non-fluoridating countries. Even in the US, Utah has the lowest fluoridation AND the lowest caries rate. Ireland does though, have some of the highest heart disease rates, increasing Alzheimer's Disease rates and 40% higher levels of bone cancer in young men than non-fluoridated Northern Ireland! To say there is a very strong debate going on at this time is quite accurate. Recently, an Expert Fluoridation Forum institued by the government advised reducing the fluoridation rate from 1ppm to 0.6-0.8 ppm, a 25% reduction. Interesting as up until the last couple of years the ADA claimed that fluoridation under 0.7ppm had no effects! They have quietly dropped that claim, as public pressure causes governments to look at reducing the levels of hydrofluorosilicic acid added to water. A Dept of Health & Children committee has examined the situation and is considering advising that this toxic waste dumping known as fluoridation be ceased altogether. For those who still believe that fluoride makes bones and teeth stronger here is just the latest of many articles by professionals (in this case a pediatrician from Bangor, Maine) showing the fluoride claims up as false and misleading. http://bangordailynews.com/news/t/viewpoints.aspx?articleid=147576&zoneid=35 "

March 16th, 2007
Hi people. Sorry I missed the last couple of days discussion – I actually DO have a job that keeps me way busy!! But I also have made it my business to investigate this fluoride issue for the past six years for myself. I will try to answer some of the comments made earlier.

The reference to lowered IQ levels is based on research conducted in China, where non-fluoridated villages were trial-twinned with those that had a higher natural fluoride level in the water. From 6-12 IQ points LOWER were noted as common in the fluoridated well water villages. See the science here:
http://www.fluoridation.com/brain.htm and here: www.fluoride-journal.com/00-33-2/332-74.pdf and here: http://fluoridealert.org/news/1655.html

Speaking of trial-twinning villages – did you know that the NY town of Newburgh (which incidentally used pure sodium fluoride in the 1950’s trials, not the hodge-podge of chemicals known as hydrofluosilicic acid used today) has no better dental record 50 years down the line than Kingston, the “control” town that it was compared with? It does, however, have one of the highest heart disease rates in the U.S. “Fluoride concentrates in the arteries, attracting calcium and can contribute directly to their hardening” according to scientists. This high rate of heart disease is shared by Grand Rapids, Michigan, another test town for fluoride in the 1950’s, which doubled its disease rate only 5 years into the trials.

It is difficult to know who I am talking to here as names do not come up on the website, but if anyone has questions (which I may or may not be able to answer) please feel free to ask– I much prefer questions asked honestly, rather than name calling and slagging off people. To JS, who said keep it brief – erm, why? How much do they charge you for people to put stuff up here??? You don’t have to read it. No one is forcing you to read, so, why do you want to force others to drink this gunk? Why are you even here if you think it’s all a waste of time?

Ireland is now into its third year of a smoking ban in all public buildings, including pubs. I love it!!! I smoked for 17 years and gave it up in my thirties. It is SO pleasant to go into a pub or concert now and not come out smelling like an ashtray. So that comment about being anti-ban is just stupid.

Check the Irish dentists site for the fluorosis figures. In the States it is estimated by the CDC that the figure is now that 50% of school-going children suffer from some form of fluorosis.
Here: http://homepage.eircom.net/~aud/home.html
And here: http://medserv.no/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=3382

WHAT benefit of fluoride??? That is part of the problem, chuck. Cavity figures worldwide have dropped tremendously – WITH or WITHOUT fluoride! Seems like better education and dental habits to me. UTAH has the lowest (3%) fluoridated water supply of all the States – AND the lowest caries rate. U.S. Government figures – check it. In 2000 the British Government set up the York (University) Report – a forum of scientists which was to back the government’s intent to bringing in fluoridation. It examined all the science and research done on fluoridation since the 50’s. In its final report it said, and I quote: “We were unable to discover any reliable good-quality evidence in the fluoridation literature world-wide. What evidence we found suggested that water fluoridation was likely to have a beneficial effect, but that the range could be anywhere from a substantial benefit to a slight dis-benefit to children's teeth. This beneficial effect comes at the expense of an increase in the prevalence of fluorosis (mottled teeth). The quality of this evidence was poor.” Doesn’t sound like they thought the argument about the benefits was proven! What convinced you?
Get it here: http://www.york.ac.uk/inst/crd/fluoridnew.htm
I ALWAYS encourage people to investigate and learn FOR THEMSELVES – something that you, Mr Smoking Ban, seem never to have bothered to do. Before you go slagging me and others off, why don’t you just move your, em, mouse and check some of the sites I have listed in my previous email? You don’t even have the courage to leave a name!

PS And sadly, yes, the Irish Guinness IS made with fluoridated Dublin water – now I have to drink Carlsberg, brewed in non-fl Northern Ireland –but hey, it’s OK! And there is fluoride in your Miller and all other beers and juices and any product manufactured in a fluoridated area. Happy St.Patrick’s Day!

And just to mention a good point made by another contributor to the Holmen debate:

By ROBERT BRIGGSKailua, HawaiiThis is in response to your recent article “Push to fluoridate Holmen's water could renew debate about practice.” You have provided much food for thought, Thank you very much.There is much I could comment on, but I wish for you, and those receiving a copy, to consider what water fluoridation has NOT done for cities fluoridated for many years. To name a few, New York, Boston, Washington, D.C., and Cincinnati, are all experiencing dental decay rates much higher than the national average. The dental decay rates in these cities are probably higher than in Holmen.I doubt that there is anything unique about Holmen to suggest that fluoridating its water would reduce dental decay.

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